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West Australian 'round the houses' circuits


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#1 Paul Newby

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 13:30

I've been meaning to write this thread for sometime - well, since I came back from a trip to Western Australia.

In the New Introduction Thread I mentioned that I was a bit of a old motor racing circuit archeologist, and this has been inspited mainly by Terry Walker's book "Fast Tracks" and the articles that Ray Bell has written for MRA called "Closed Circuits." Before I talk about my WA sojourn I'll mention that the closed circuits I've visited in NSW include Marsden Park and Mt Druitt, where predictably there isn't much to see, plus circuits I've sprinted (not raced) around including Amaroo Park and Catalina (where I've also walked the rally-cross circuit which is overgrown like a jungle :lol: ) I've driven around Gnoo Blas may years ago and also walked Hume Weir before dam earthworks dramatically altered the geography.

Back to Western Australia. I was there on business for a week and then planned a weeks holiday to catch up with relatives (both my parents are from WA.) There were three things I had to so: 1) visit Albany whre my Father was from and a place I ahdn't seen for 25 years, 2) visit the famous York Motor Museum and 3) visit my aunt and uncle in Geraldton. To give some of our foriegn TNFrs an idea, Albany is 400km south of Perth, whilst Geraldton is over 400km noth of Perth. All in all I covered about 3000km in the little Mitsubishi Lancer Coupe often at highly illegal speeds especially in the north where there is no traffic. All in one week!

My plan was always to visit the may "round the houses" racing circuits that were a feature of WA racing up until 1966 and the advent of stricter safety regulations. I took with me the aforementioned "Fast Tracks" plus Terry's other book "Around the Houses" as well as Ray Bell's Closed Circuit articles on Albany, Narrogin and Geraldton. My trip to Albany, predictably included a detout through the Margaret River and its wineries and caves (recommended) plus the pretty little hamlet of Denmark.

I will mention those towns where circuits once existed and my attempts to retrace the actual track with the benefit of Terry and Ray's maps.

Bunbury
There were two circuits at Bunbury, the first being through the town centre consisting mainly of 90 degree turns. This looked a bit dull and the part where the start finish line seems to have been realigned and couldn't be followed. The second was a variation of the first with a bit of a kink in Russell Street.

Carey Park
This is now a suburb of Bunbury and was only used once in 1963. At over 4km the track was quite long and in places quite fast especially along Forrest Ave and Spencer Street, but there were some fiddly little intersections where I got lost - but it all survives intact.

Bussleton
I stayed overnight at this tourist town. The circuit still exists, but as it also serves as the locat Airport I didn't get the opportunity to drive this one :lol:

Albany
The original Albany circuit of 1936 looked like an exciting circuit. Changes of elevation and adverse cambers were a real test for drivers. Interestingly Hell Corner was just down the road from where my Father grew up in Festing Street (I never asked him about racing in Albany but knew he attended the AGP at Narrogin in 1951.) Alas the circuit can't be driven in the correct direction as Grey St is now one way and the roundabouts up the top of York street change things considerably.
I didn't really spend much time exploring the more modern circuit (last used in 1963) that took in Middleton Beach Road that did spend some time in the old cemetery that it passes looking for my great-grand parents grave (which I eventually found.)

Narrogin
This circuit took two goes to circumnavigate correctly, wrong turns and lack of street signs thwarted me. The circuit as used for the 51 AGP was over 7km long and very fast with the main straight over 2.4km long. I visited the tourist centre inquiring as to whether there was a commemorative plaque celebrating the 50th anniversary of the great race - the Narrogin Commemorative Australian Jubilee Grand Prix in November 2001. I was told one had been made but the stone blocks it was to be place on had been stolen and the plaque sitting in the office of town engineer Dan Turner, one of the organisers, who I was told would be delighted to show it to me. So I went up to the Town Centre to be told by reception that they couldn't find Messrs Turner despite being paged numerous times. I waited 20 minutes but to no avail. A pity.

Pingelly
Another tiny town (population 300) in the wheat belt, this circuit being easily the msot difficult to navigate due to almost a complete lack of street signs. Infact I think some of the streets have changed names, but I thinkI got it right in the end. Fairly non-descript, to be honest. :)

Beverley
This happens to be the town my great-grandparents first settled in having migrated from England, they moved to Albany soon after. Again, like Bussleton, another airstrip circuit that I was unable to visit.

Northam
I've got to be honest here. I drove through the main street having forgotten it was once a circuit - so I didn't drive around it. Mind you, the main street which happened to be the main straight of the circuit was a bit hairy and narrow, as I believe the rest of the circuit was as well.

Toodyay
According to Terry Walker, major changes to the railway line has made this circuit impossible to lap - so I didn't bother.

Geraldton
The last of the "round the houses" circuits and only used once in 1965. Ray Bell's article was a great help here and the circuit was indeed an interesting one. What can't be deduced from the photos in Ray's article was the large elevation changes, seemingly up and down old sand dunes. The right hander from Johnston St to Eastern Road looked quick and tricky. Unfortunately you cannot turn fron Ainsworth St into Phelps St so I was unable to do a complete lap.
Having seen the circuit I can understand why it was seen as a dangerous place and why it marked the end of an era of round the house racing in Western Australia.

Just a short mention about the York Motor Museum. As luck would have it, the morning I arrived also happened to be the morning where most of the cars were shifted to their new Fremantle Motor Museum. I had been told by relatives that this was going to happen and actually visited Fremantle and their impressive new Maritime Museum the week before. Their was very little to see in York, lots of posters on the wall and a few sports cars remained. The Fremantle museum opended the following weekend and I just had time to visit before returning to Sydney. All the cars were there but a lot of work remained with posters, displays and the like. Still, the resident mechanic, exhausted from many a sleepless night, was able to show me around some of the more intersting exhibits, like the Taruffi "Twin Tubalare" record breaker with seized Dino V6! (s.b a Maserati A6CM motor IIRC.)

There endeth this long(ish) tale :D I my introduction to TNF Ray thought I might know of more "hidden" racing circuits around Australia. Unfortunately I don't have access to too much in the way of original research but am happy to follow in the footsteps of others and discover a little more about our racing heritage. :wave:

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#2 Flying Panda

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 15:10

the roads that made up the Middle Ridge circuit still exist in Toowoomba,
but there are a lot more roads there now, and a lot of development.
When racing took place, the area where the circuit was located was farmland, today it is full of suburban housing.

#3 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 21:47

I know you enjoyed yourself Paul... but how could you possibly forget Applecross?

Middle Ridge looks pretty dull... except for one corner. You seem to know it, black and white one?

#4 Paul Newby

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Posted 27 January 2003 - 12:26

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ray Bell
[B]I know you enjoyed yourself Paul... but how could you possibly forget Applecross?

Yes, I know. I still had the rental car whilst in Perth, but ran out of time on my way to the airport, having visited the Fremantle Motor Museum earlier that day. I believe its still intact, just a lot more houses than in 1940 :)

I also failed to mention whilst in York I drove up the Mount Brown lookout thinking this would make a great hillclimb. Little did I realise that in the 60's and 70's it was just that :rolleyes: Indeed in my copy of Alleggerita (mentioned in the Horst Kwech thread) there is a photo of the Mildren Alfa Giulia GTA at Mount Brown.

#5 Flying Panda

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Posted 27 January 2003 - 14:17

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Middle Ridge looks pretty dull... except for one corner. You seem to know it, black and white one?

Yep, quite a boring circuit indeed.
It was practically a ''Modified Oval'', the type of track that CART would occasionally run on in the early eighties. A modified version of a road or street circuit, where the vast majority of corners were left handed. (or in the case of Middle Ridge, right handed.)

#6 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 January 2003 - 22:42

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Paul Newby
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ray Bell
[B]I know you enjoyed yourself Paul... but how could you possibly forget Applecross?

Yes, I know. I still had the rental car whilst in Perth, but ran out of time on my way to the airport, having visited the Fremantle Motor Museum earlier that day. I believe its still intact, just a lot more houses than in 1940 :)

I also failed to mention whilst in York I drove up the Mount Brown lookout thinking this would make a great hillclimb. Little did I realise that in the 60's and 70's it was just that :rolleyes: Indeed in my copy of Alleggerita (mentioned in the Horst Kwech thread) there is a photo of the Mildren Alfa Giulia GTA at Mount Brown.
[/QUOTE]

What a shame! Just a few minutes and you'd have had a snapshot of one of the most interesting ones...

And that would be ex-Mildren? Gordon Stephenson, as I recall... later to race the ex-Niel Allen (and thus ex-Greg Cusack) Mustang...

#7 Paul Newby

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 12:27

Originally posted by Ray Bell



And that would be ex-Mildren? Gordon Stephenson, as I recall... later to race the ex-Niel Allen (and thus ex-Greg Cusack) Mustang...


Yes, it is the very first GTA to race in Australia - entered by Mildren for Bussinello and Sachs at the 65 Sandown 500 where it retired. In Alleggerita it is known as GTA No1 as the firewall was destroyed and its chassis number is unknown. Stephenson bought the car in 1966 and it was rolled at Caversham and then again at Mount Brown. It was later sold to Basil Ricciardello who converted it to right hand and ran it with larger Alfa engines before a major front end shunt in the mid '70s, whereby it was converted into a V8 sports sedan ... :cry:

It seemed that all the interesting Alfas ended up in Western Australia and Stephenson went on to own the ex Foley (genuine) GTAm which had been coverted to run a Type 33 V8 engine and later the ex Peter Wherrett Pye sponsored Alfetta GT complete with a monosleeve 16 valve Autodelta engine. Frank Cecchele also owned a couple of these GTAs at various times.

There is a terrific article that I have on all these Western Australian Alfas written by Bruce Thomas (with assistance from Andrew Murray) that was published in a number of Alfa club magazines in 1993. It mentions all but one of the GTAs that came to Australia - I believe there is a Mildren delivered one-owner GTA Junior on Sydney's North Shore. The other ex-Rhodesian GTA Junior that now resides in Sydney (ex WA, of course) is going down to Phillip Island for the Classic in March where Alfa Romeo is the featured marque (indeed there are 8 NSW racing Alfas heading south, including yours truly :wave: )

#8 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 January 2003 - 21:53

I never knew that the car my friend Gordon Mitchell drove with his Rover V8 engine in was the first Mildren GTA... in fact, I had always assumed it was just a GTV!

The merging of two interesting histories... the GTA was historic enough, but the Rover engine had come from a Marina that had been built for the London-Munich rally and hadn't run because the army team that intended running it had to go off and fight some war at the last minute.

Of course there were some new handles and heads on the way...

#9 275 GTB-4

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 11:08

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Paul Newby
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ray Bell
[B]I know you enjoyed yourself Paul... but how could you possibly forget Applecross?

Yes, I know. I still had the rental car whilst in Perth, but ran out of time on my way to the airport, having visited the Fremantle Motor Museum earlier that day. I believe its still intact, just a lot more houses than in 1940 :)

I also failed to mention whilst in York I drove up the Mount Brown lookout thinking this would make a great hillclimb. Little did I realise that in the 60's and 70's it was just that :rolleyes: Indeed in my copy of Alleggerita (mentioned in the Horst Kwech thread) there is a photo of the Mildren Alfa Giulia GTA at Mount Brown.
[/QUOTE]

Dateline Perth:

Visited the Freo Motor Museum today to find they have expanded the collection with somemore interesting cars (still love that blower Bentley) mainly with a bunch of "chopper" type motorcycles (one horrendous example was an Arial Square with "wild"paint and huge handlebars - evidently the work of a prisoner in Freo Goal. I asked if he was given more time in the slammer for his sins!!!)

The ex-Stewart March from the South African GP win is still there, as is the BRM H16 and Alan Jones DFV powered racer.

Something interesting was an Aston Martin "replica bodied" from the 1928 Australian GP. The first Australian GP? Marvelous piece of engineering.

Also the restored Maybach that nearly killed Peter Briggs

Left the place with a grin.

#10 Ray Bell

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 11:26

And Applecross? How was Applecross?

#11 275 GTB-4

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 12:06

Originally posted by Ray Bell
And Applecross? How was Applecross?


No idea, however, I did think briefly about some apple crumble following my great Tiger Prawn lunch.... :eek:

#12 soubriquet

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 12:09

Let me know where the circuit ran, and I will post an impression. Even take a photo or two.

#13 Ray Bell

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 12:16

Kintail Road, Duncraig Road and Canning Beach Road are among the bits I can recall... and they come in that order.

#14 David McKinney

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 14:20

Long straight of Kintail Road, acute right into Matheson Road, another acute right into Ardross St, short blast before bearing left into Tweeddale Road then Duncraig Road up the hill. Stay on this till right into Canning Beach Road, right into Ogilvie Road and almost immediately right-angle right-hander and you're back on Kintail Road again.

#15 Ray Bell

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 22:21

Thanks David, I had nothing with me to check...

But I should have remembered Ardross and Tweedale, shouldn't I?

#16 soubriquet

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 13:38

The basic setting at Applecross is a promontry where the Canning meets the
Swan River. The topography is typical Swan coastal plain. It was an active
dune system during the last glacial. The dunes have been stabilised and
subdued during the wetter current interglacial.

Kintail Road is a 1.8km straight, with a sharp crest at about one third
distance. The 110 degree right into is tight, but there is the option to run
straight on for any last-of-the-late-braker heroes, suffering terminal fade.

The Matheson/Ardross/Tweeddale section comprises right-right-left corners
separated by very short straight sections, undulating with complex camber
changes. Tweeddale is a short straight, then bear left into Duncraig, which
climbs, then falls through a series of twists, opening out towards the end as
you approach the Canning River.

A 90 degree right takes you onto Canning Beach Road. There is a 200 metre
straight, then a sharp right at Coffee Point. Running wide here would see
you in the river. Then there is a long sweeping left hander all the way
around the bay, a sharp right at the end, and another 90 right back on to
Kintail

Quite an interesting circuit. Clearly very much a power circuit with that long
straight, but very technical elsewhere with twists, terrain and camber
changes, and finishing with a fast sweeper.

I propose Applecross as a candidate for another thread: "Salubrious circuits
of the World". I doubt the good burghers would welcome a return of racing
to one of Perth's most moneyed suburbs.

I have some snaps, if anyone is prepared to host them.

#17 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 17:09

How appropriate... to propose Applecross for anything at all...

After all, they got permission to run a race there, almost right in Perth, in wartime!

A part of the deal was that the promotion of War Bonds was enhanced by the meeting, perhaps there was even some contribution to them via the 'gate' takings?

And the promotion of gas producers for everyday automotive use was enhanced (in a very fuel-starved continent...) by the runners in the tintop race being required to use these cumbersome devices.

But one part of your description tends to defy the minds of those looking at this circuit, soubriquet, as I mentioned on another thread just the other day.

Coming up those sweeps of Duncraig Road, one gathered plenty of speed, with the final climb leading to a crest that was mid-sweeper with the drop after the crest being rather sharp... and the road is still turning at the bottom of that descent where the Canning Beach Road intersection is reached.

It's one of the trickiest corners in the business, that one, coming over the crest still turning and having to get on the brakes for the tight corner all at once.

This is one aspect of the course which I would say detracts from the total 'power circuit' theme... but it's true that the lap record was set by the car that was probably the most powerful there, Duncan Ord's Bugatti.

#18 Paul Newby

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Posted 12 February 2004 - 05:27

Its nice to see my old thread resurrected. :clap:

However it seems that discussion is centred on Applecross, the one circuit I didn't lap, well, not intentionally anyway.

Still, I was pretty impressed by the grades of Albany, the scale of Narrogin and the undulations of Geraldton. Most of the others were pretty mind-numbing, if truth be told. :|

#19 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 February 2004 - 06:10

It seems, Paul, that you have a good appreciation for those you did see...

All the more that it's a pity that you didn't see Applecross!

As I mentioned before, that corner out of Duncraig into Canning Beach is (was?) one of the most testing corners in Australian motor racing.

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#20 soubriquet

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Posted 12 February 2004 - 08:28

Well I did write part flat-out blast and part technical. I have some photos of parts of the circuit, and I'm happy to go back for some of the Duncraig/Canning section, if anyone wants to host them.

As I knew nothing about the period when it was used for racing, I did wonder what cars would have prospered. Obviously, power was needed for the straight, but also nimbleness, and stability. Maybe that description fits the winning Bugatti, but I have no knowledge of their dynamic merits relative to the competition.

#21 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 February 2004 - 05:05

There were the odd side-valve Ford V8 and Plymouth Specials, of course, and a new car with a supercharged Ford 10 engine...

The Bugatti, on the other hand, was a fairly large one. Type 59, IIRC?

#22 David McKinney

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Posted 16 February 2004 - 08:01

Originally posted by Ray Bell
The Bugatti, on the other hand, was a fairly large one. Type 59, IIRC?

Now that would have been something :up:
No, just a T57 I'm afraid

#23 Kvadrat

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 02:28

Here's quote from http://www.abc.net.a...s/s1661019.htm:

In the 1930s, The Albany Town Council and the WA Sporting Car Club proposed a round-the-houses car race. In 1937, the Albany Tourist Trophy was conducted over 25 laps around a four kilometre road circuit passing through the centre of town.



Did the race really have name Tourist Trophy? Can you provide date for 1937 race?

#24 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 04:30

The 1937 race was during the Easter weekend some time... probably on the Saturday...

But it was called the Albany Grand Prix. I don't know the distance, but I would assume it was the same 25 laps as the Tourist Trophy had been in 1936.

I don't have access here to my story on this circuit, so maybe Terry Walker can elucidate, or perhaps Paul Newby can look up the dates in that. I think that the 1936 event may have been a few weeks earlier than Easter of that year.

The really interesting part is that, to the time of the 1937 race, only three road race circuits had been used in Australia (providing we learn nothing new about Rutherford...) and all three of them had been within sight of the southern shoreline of the country... Phillip Island, Port Elliot and Albany.

#25 Bernd

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 04:42

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Port Elliot.


That's Victor Harbor Raymond ;)

I've had a look at a few of the circuits mentioned here, but not shot them sadly. Caversham is the one I really want a look at.

#26 David McKinney

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 05:05

The 1937 race took place on Easter Monday (following a hillclimb at Mount Clarence on the Saturday)

#27 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 05:29

Thanks, David... and there were hillclimbs earlier than that too, weren't there? I recall that Allan Tomlinson went into raptures talking about the superb run that Clem Dwyer made in his MG to win one year.

Bernd... It's Port Elliot to me... there's one corner of the circuit that's about midway between the two, but the rest of it's closer to (and beyond) Port Elliot.

#28 xbgs351

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 08:13

So where are the photos?

I visited some of those towns a few months back and I would be interested in seeing if I recognise any of the circuit locations.

#29 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 09:56

Terry Walker will sell you one of his CDs... that's got heaps of them...

You'll find it well worth the money.

#30 MarkBisset

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Posted 23 April 2023 - 11:54

81-EC1-BC7-32-EE-4158-A2-B8-EF01-DF8-BED

 

The Dingo Ugly John EB Wittenoom Oldsmobile Special during the 1940 Albany Tourist Trophy - second to Bill Smallwood's MG TA Spl (CJ Batelier - Collections WA)

 

"At the west end of Stirling Terrace heading east. The wall and the gates to the Old Gaol can be seen to the background left."

 

90-D8-D4-DB-27-C1-4-E9-F-9441-349332786-

 

Wittenoom in the Olds Spl ahead of the GS Glyde Ford Four Spl during the same race (Ken Devine Collection) 

 

Wittenoom was an Albany local and raced the Oldsmobile which had been originally raced and built by Mount Barker's Spencer Stanes.

 

"Since then (the 1938 Albany race) the car has been extensively modified and will be hardly recognised by even the makers of the machine. An entirely new chassis has been fitted, making the car narrower, lower and shorter. In his preparation of the car, Stands was not guided by orthodox ideas and did at one time move the motor back two feet in the chassis. While there was an improvement in some respects, the car became exceptionally difficult to handle, so the irrepressible Spencer moved the motor forward again, but shortened the chassis further and brought the rear wheels up closer to the power plant." Adrian Newey eat 'yer heart out.

 

Results source Terry Walker  Trove snippets


Edited by MarkBisset, 23 April 2023 - 12:55.


#31 Kendevine

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Posted 26 April 2023 - 09:11

It's great to see a topic resurrected after 20 years. It's so interesting to read as it was before my time on TNF. I have an excellent collection of photos from the event's ,



#32 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 April 2023 - 10:46

Originally posted by MarkBisset
.....Wittenoom was an Albany local and raced the Oldsmobile which had been originally raced and built by Mount Barker's Spencer Stanes.....


Funny thing, Mark, I've frequently wondered if there was a connection...

But I've always put it out of mind. Do you have pics of the car as raced by Stanes?

#33 Paul Newby

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Posted 27 April 2023 - 01:47

Wow Mark, that's a pretty impressive thread mine?

 

I've been back to Perth twice since 2002 when I did my exploration, but on both occasions didn't have time to do any motor racing circuit archaeology...

 

I wrote a similar South Australian Round The Houses Circuit thread some time in 2003. That certainly had more responses on here. You should check it out...  :)

 

 



#34 MarkBisset

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Posted 27 April 2023 - 03:33

Good to hear from you Ken, and Paul.

 

I've been a very regular visitor to Perth for well over 25 years, not since Covid tho, for a mix of business and family, but I've never done a 'Round The Houses' tour despite having a base in Perth and 'Margs (Gnarabup). Just gotta do it! I see Albany has 90th Celebrations planned in 2026. So diarise Albany that March, and, of course Goulburn in January 2027. Two must-go's.

 

I think this is potentially an interesting thread as there is a shedload of shots pinging around the internet, almost all of which I know nothing about, but I've got Bob King's copy of Terry Walkers book, plus his Terry's fantastic online results as resources. See this piece; https://primotipo.co...-speed-classic/

 

EC6049-A2-0440-4522-BD78-587613-DAE975.j

 

Ray, the best I can do with a quick Google is this obscured shot of Spencer Stanes at Dowerin in 1938, (the donor FB post says 1938, Walker 1939) probably the June 6 meeting. 

 

Others are the #5 Jack McIntosh Morgan, #10 Norm Kestel MG TA, then #7 S Cook, Jowett, #14 dunno, #3 is the Stanes Olds, #15 perhaps Roy Sojan's Chrysler 'Silverwing's, and the attractive cream Ford (?) dunno. Terry's results don't assist in this case as he doesn't have competitor numbers for the meeting. Gaps, and date for Ken Devine perhaps?

 

Photo Source : Red Dust Revival FB page 


Edited by MarkBisset, 27 April 2023 - 03:41.


#35 Porsche718

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Posted 27 April 2023 - 04:02

Ray, just for you ...

 

 

image-2023-04-29-212140041.png

 

 

Horrid looking thing!


Edited by Porsche718, 29 April 2023 - 11:22.


#36 Porsche718

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Posted 27 April 2023 - 07:12

Good to hear from you Ken, and Paul.

 

I've been a very regular visitor to Perth for well over 25 years, not since Covid tho, for a mix of business and family, but I've never done a 'Round The Houses' tour despite having a base in Perth and 'Margs (Gnarabup). Just gotta do it! I see Albany has 90th Celebrations planned in 2026. So diarise Albany that March, and, of course Goulburn in January 2027. Two must-go's.

 

I think this is potentially an interesting thread as there is a shedload of shots pinging around the internet, almost all of which I know nothing about, but I've got Bob King's copy of Terry Walkers book, plus his Terry's fantastic online results as resources. See this piece; https://primotipo.co...-speed-classic/

 

EC6049-A2-0440-4522-BD78-587613-DAE975.j

 

Ray, the best I can do with a quick Google is this obscured shot of Spencer Stanes at Dowerin in 1938, (the donor FB post says 1938, Walker 1939) probably the June 6 meeting. 

 

Others are the #5 Jack McIntosh Morgan, #10 Norm Kestel MG TA, then #7 S Cook, Jowett, #14 dunno, #3 is the Stanes Olds, #15 perhaps Roy Sojan's Chrysler 'Silverwing's, and the attractive cream Ford (?) dunno. Terry's results don't assist in this case as he doesn't have competitor numbers for the meeting. Gaps, and date for Ken Devine perhaps?

 

Photo Source : Red Dust Revival FB page 

 

This is the start of the Dowerin Cup race, June 6, 1938.

 

Drivers and cars in the photo are - #5 McIntosh, Morgan; #10 Kestel, MG; #7 Neil Baird, Vauxhall 10; #14 Spencer Cook, Jowett Special; #3 Spencer Stanes, Oldsmobile; #15 Sojan, Chrysler Silverwings with nose of the Mick Nasso Buick behind.

 

Wilson's MG has already been released by the starter. 



#37 MarkBisset

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Posted 27 April 2023 - 07:47

Thanks Steve,

 

Great shot isn't it!?

 

m



#38 Kendevine

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Posted 28 April 2023 - 00:21

There's not a lot known about the Dowerin race. That's actually the only photo i have in my collection



#39 MarkBisset

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Posted 28 April 2023 - 02:54

Ken,

 

Yes, I've just had a quick Trove, there are several pieces on both Dowerin 1938 meetings in advance of the meeting, but none in the nature of post-event reports. Odd.

 

I guess the #1 blueblood in 'this period' was Duncan Ord's ex-Howe Bugatti T57T. A top shot from your collection below said to be Narrogin 1948. I can't align car/number with TW's results listings. Other thoughts on place/date please? 

https://www.telegrap...-pierre-levegh/

 

Mark

 

3-FE69-FF9-6-A45-409-E-9676-977-E27-FB3-andaman and nicobar islands wallpapers


Edited by MarkBisset, 28 April 2023 - 02:59.


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#40 Porsche718

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Posted 28 April 2023 - 04:25

I would suggest it's pre-war. 

 

By its first appearance post-war it no longer ran with the horn on the dumb-irons and the grille was slighty different. Lowered to improve cooling.

 

The last couple of years pre-war it ran with dark numbers rather than the white, so I would suggest very early in Ord's ownership.

 

Could possible be the back section of Dowerin. Ord did run there once.


Edited by Porsche718, 28 April 2023 - 05:30.


#41 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 April 2023 - 10:56

I'm looking forward to getting home and looking at the Stanes car in one of the AGP books...

 

Rather a better photo than the one Steve has posted, as I recall.

 

It's interesting that 'Mt Barker's Spencer Stanes' travelled to Perth to compete, but there wasn't a lot of racing anywhere except around Perth at the time. The car probably went by ship.

 

With regard to the Duncan Ord photo, I'd suggest it's more like Northam or one of the other towns, Dowerin (from memory) was all on a claypan, so the trees in the background are a bit unlikely.



#42 Porsche718

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Posted 30 April 2023 - 03:42

 

With regard to the Duncan Ord photo, I'd suggest it's more like Northam or one of the other towns, Dowerin (from memory) was all on a claypan, so the trees in the background are a bit unlikely.

 

I think the original "Dowerin" clay pan circuit was actually called Lake Koombekine.

 

I was of thinking the much smaller "showground" circuit that that ran between 1937 and latish 1939. This was where Ord ran the Bugatti.


Edited by Porsche718, 30 April 2023 - 05:05.


#43 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 April 2023 - 04:57

The same picture is used in Terry's book...

 

It's at Pingelly. He placed second there in 1940.



#44 MarkBisset

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Posted 30 April 2023 - 09:41

Thanks re Duncan Ord in 1940, Didn't have Terry's book with me over the weekend.

 

Ord raced at Pingelly from 1939-41 using #9 in all cases.

 

2-BC11-C3-F-5810-490-F-BDE0-546-A2-FAFD6html upload image

 

This shot is a W,W, Albany and When question. Tricia Ross on Facebook - oh-no my God! - says her mum has it listed as 1938 but I can't make those numbers work. Thoughts?

 

56-C4-D703-A7-A5-4-AE8-B551-87-FBD1-E2-E

 

Sticking with Albany, what a fantastic panorama. Norm Kestel's MG TA going up Aberdeen Street, at the corner of Aberdeen and Grey Streets. Albany GP 1937

 

(Collections WA)

 

1-E9-F6554-3913-4-E32-AD65-962-F18-CF8-A


Edited by MarkBisset, 30 April 2023 - 09:57.


#45 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 April 2023 - 13:03

I've now determined that it's the Blanden AGP book which has the photo of Stanes...

 

Of course, I can't find my copy.



#46 MarkBisset

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Posted 30 April 2023 - 13:28

not that I can see



#47 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 April 2023 - 14:29

If you have that book it's in the Victor Harbor pages...



#48 Kendevine

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Posted 01 May 2023 - 06:16

I don't recognize the the cars in the Albany shot Nos 5& 2, i looked through all my Albany photos but they aren't there. I thought Ranford and Cranston but if it's 1940 Cranston was retired and Ranfords car was no 6.



#49 MarkBisset

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Posted 01 May 2023 - 06:59

Thanks Ken,

 

It looks like Albany but my knowledge is shallow, does the feel of the place ring a bell with one of the other towns?

 

Mark 



#50 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 May 2023 - 08:20

No 5 is obviously the Spencer Stanes car before it was altered...

 

I reckon there's a chance No 2 is the Royal car as we discussed last week. Features in common:

 

The car is a '35 Ford with wire wheels.

 

The 'fin' down the back.

 

However, the picture is obviously before 1940 (when was the Stanes car altered?) and if that's the case we've seen that the Royal car was pretty shabby at Applecross, that makes it unlikely.

 

Ken, I think you mentioned that you thought that the Royal car might have been the 1935 Cranston car, it's starting to look a bit unlikely, so it's a good chance to be that car, driven by whomever might have had it by then.