[joes455]

Just want to get some feedback.I have a Professional products powerflow stainless mesh 40 micron setup.My idear is to wrap toilet paper around the circumference of the filter element as as many times as possible and reinstall into a filter external adapter.Running the restricted supply lines as required.Lets hear it.

[Murf]

I believe that is illegal at this time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Bnick166]

Implement your plan....Let us know your findings.....................

[joes455]

What brand tp should I purchase?

[64speed]

I hope you’re kidding

[joes455]

Noope. simple concept oil in at a restricted rate ( .020 or so) oil out to valve cover.

[t money]

Originally Posted by 64speed

I hope you’re kidding

All the fast guys are doing it 😄

[Sirrotica]

So many things you're not taking into consideration in doing this.

First of all a TP by pass filter doesn't filter from outside to inside as a conventional oil filter does. The pressurized oil comes up the center of the roll and is pushed from the dome of the canister to the other end of the paper. It goes top to bottom not outside to inside.

The hydraulic action compacts the paper and squeezes it to make it more dense. There's more to it than most people know because they've actually never looked at one, let alone used one.

If you want a by pass oil filter there are ways to reduce price rather than trying to engineer one yourself.

If you want a TP filter, I would recommend either looking on E bay for a NOS Frantz, or a similar older brands. Lots of times they go for under $100.

This Link is for the last filter John Frantz designed before his death. The owner of the company bought the rights to the filter and is having it manufactured in the US:

https://www.toiletpaperoilfilter.com...ercompany.html

FWIW, I was a dealer for Frantz, but lost my franchise when the company was sold. I can fab most anything I put my mind to, but it really wouldn't be worth my labor to make one, even though I know how they're designed. If you really want a TP by pass filter I would buy one, rather than trying to make one. Believe me it will pay for itself in a few years in saved oil and filters. My payback on my diesel truck was about 25,000 miles, 3 1/2 years. That's just the financial payback, reduced engine wear is hard to put a dollar figure on.

If you still want to build one, buy a Motorguard compressed air filter, and you have the canister that was a competitor to Frantz back in the 60s. The company decided they could make more money selling their filters as compressed air filters, rather than oil filters. The engineering is already done, needs a restrictor to slow the flow through the filter down. They started using a plastic sleeve inside instead of a metal sleeve that melts under the heat of hot motor oil that also need changed out.

Outline of converting the Motorguard housing to an oil filter:

Most any Scott will work. I have some Canadian customers that use Scott Tradition. I saw some Tradition in a motel in BC a few years ago. I notice those things. It is probably a janitorial supply product. In Germany they have 3 1/2" paper.
I am getting pretty good at removing the core from the Motor Guard elements. The core will break down and melt in hot motor oil. Gasoline will break it down. The white label that keeps the roll from unrolling can take the heat and fuel. I am going to start putting 1 5/8" Nylatron cores in the fuel filters. That way the Motor Guard element will be a perfect fit with the plastic core removed. 1 5/8" TP will also be a perfect fit. The bottom Nylatron piece will seal 3 1/2" up inside the element. When I get the Motor Guards they have the Motor Guard elements. I have to use them. I reach in with a screw driver and collapse the core and twist it out. Then I reach in with long shears and cut the paper. Try to tear that tough stuff and it doesn't work. It's easier to deal with removing the core after the element has been compressed in the filter. Remove the core from a new element and the element is strong enough to make the hole get smaller. I have been taking them to work for the equipment. I'm using them to filter waste cooking oil. There are people that are working on an element for the TP filters that will work as well as TP that they can make money on. I say good luck. The people that have been using TP for years are not going to buy them. They might sell in countries where good TP is not available. One advantage to the Motor Guard element is for non automotive use such as where you can't risk getting even the smallest paper fiber in the product you are filtering.
I am in the process of setting up the big filters to take a roll of Scott roll towels. They are 8" by 12". I just ordered a case from www.vikingop.com. That is where I get the Scott Kimberly Clark that I will be using in the lube oil filters. I can wrap the roll tightly with 2" polypropylene tape to keep the roll from expanding and pinching in the gasket and use the whole roll. The reason the Motor Guard element doesn't pinch in the gasket is it is so strong that it can be squeezed without getting bigger. My old 35 year old Motor Guards were designed for TP. They had a lip to pull in the paper just before the halves came together. Luckily for TP users they didn't change the housing size. Don't buy any TP like the Marcal in Viking. It is similar to what Oilgard compares their filter elements to. Stick with the non channeling Scott.

Hopefully this will give you enough background to just buy a filter, rather than trying to engineer your own.

[64speed]

That doesn’t look like a simple install and I want a clean engine compartment with no returns to my valve covers. Sirrotica I believe you. I wish I was building the kind of car where it wouldn’t be out of place. The Baldwin filters are rated to 21 microns and that will just have to do for me.

[Chris65LeMans]

Originally Posted by joes455

What brand tp should I purchase?

Follow the DIY plan and just steal whatever’s in the men’s room at the next gas station you visit.

[joes455]

How about used tp.just kidding.ok so i route the supply line up from the filter can's drain screw so that oil will come from center of element and strain outward.This isn't rocket science folks.I will have to flip element upside down.This isn't a big deal.I can get all sizes of elements from working on ac like 737 a320 to experiment with.

[joes455]

Could purchase the amsoil 2 micro bypass but at $45 a shot and I cant inspect it has often as ide like.64speed u need at least a 5 micron as a bypass.I hope your not using that 20 micron as a full flow.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by joes455

Could purchase the amsoil 2 micro bypass but at $45 a shot and I cant inspect it has often as ide like.64speed u need at least a 5 micron as a bypass.I hope your not using that 20 micron as a full flow.

First of all you don't change it every 3-5,000 miles, it should be good for 50-60,000 miles.

Do the math. New 8 dollar filter every 5,000 miles is $48 in 6 oil changes, and 30,000 miles, plus no oil change at $30 bucks every 5,000 miles. $30 X 12 oil changes, in 60,000 miles is $360. That $45 dollar filter is looking pretty cheap now isn't it? Your $215 ahead at 60,000 miles.

You really don't need to inspect an oil filter, oil analysis gives you a much clearer picture of engine health than looking at particles on a ripped open oil filter.

If you buy a Frantz filter you can look at the end of the TP roll when you remove it from the canister, if you really feel the need to look at particulate. The thing is the really harmful particulate is invisible to the human eye anyway, that's the reason the oil is sent for analysis. They can see the fine particulate, identify it as to what is is, and tell you the condition of the oil, as well as the health of the engine.

It's a whole new set of rules maintaining an engine with a by pass oil filter system, you have to get used to not worrying about going past previous oil change intervals. Having made my living for 40 years as a mechanic, it was unnerving to run my oil for 30-40,000 miles, been doing it for 10 years now. I got no problems now with running the oil a ton of miles and just changing the TP every 5-8,000 miles.

BTW, you can run the full flow filter the same mileage as your oil, it doesn't get dirty, the by pass filter is doing the filtering. The full flow is just there as a backup, and to keep the flow of the oil system intact.

[P@blo]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

BTW, you can run the full flow filter the same mileage as your oil, it doesn't get dirty, the by pass filter is doing the filtering. The full flow is just there as a backup, and to keep the flow of the oil system intact.

This statement is a little confusing to me. How is the bypass doing the primary filtering and the full flow filters only assist when the bearings never see oil directly from the bypass?

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by P@blo

This statement is a little confusing to me. How is the bypass doing the primary filtering and the full flow filters only assist when the bearings never see oil directly from the bypass?

The whole problem with the full flow filter is it's placement in the system, it can't be efficient, and still allow oil to get to the engine parts in all situations without a priority valve. If 100% of the oil capacity gets run through the by pass filter down to 5 microns every 5 minutes, it's all clean as the oil pump picks it up. It then goes through a 30-40 micron full flow filter, keep in mind it's already filtered to 5 microns. Is the 30-40 micron filter going to remove anything? It's now secondary as far as removing particulate in relationship to the by pass filter.

Most by pass filters are roughly 99% efficient to 5 microns. The full flow filter is 97% effective to 30 microns, what media is going to catch the majority of the contaminants? I believe the answer is obvious, but maybe it isn't............

Because the finer media filter will remove the bulk of the particulate, 5 microns vs 30-40 microns. You can remove the 30-40 micron full flow filter from the circuit, and be just fine, it isn't needed with a by pass filter.

Just remember, the full flow filter isn't in the optimum location to filter oil. Who puts a restrictive filter in the flow path before the oil gets to the critical engine parts? Hydraulic engineers don't filter oil to a fine degree on the pressure side of the pump like automotive engineers do. They then had to add a priority valve to make sure the internally oiled parts don't starve for oil if the filter becomes too restrictive. It's a compromised design, but it's cheap.

Detroit engineers ran IC engines without any filters for many years, and if you did order the optional filter it was a by pass design filter, there weren't full flow filters until the 50s on most Detroit iron. All the filtering was done 100% by by pass oil filters, unless you chose the no filter option.

A by pass system filters the whole capacity of the engine in roughly 5 minutes, the oil doesn't become contaminated in 5 minutes. If it does the engine is in severe distress anyway.

When by pass filters were more popular, there were aftermarket plates that could be substituted in the place of the full flow filter completely eliminating it. The engines have been proven to run just fine without it, using a by pass filter only. If left in place it becomes a backup in case the owner neglected the by pass filter and it clogged, the oil would revert to the OEM design of just having the full flow filter doing all of the filtering, until the by pass filter was changed.

Pontiac had a full flow filter delete option on the 1961-63 T4 engines. You could order it with filter delete. It had a plate that removed the full flow filter completely, in case the owner wanted to run just a by pass filter, and no full flow filter.

The full flow filter never did clean the oil, if it did you wouldn't have to drain it out of the engine at 5,000 miles because it becomes contaminated with fine matter that is able to pass through the coarse media. The coarse media is needed to lower the restriction of the filter on the compromised placement of the filter.

Even with a coarse media filter you still need a priority valve to keep the vital supply of oil coming to the internally oiled parts in high oil pressure, high RPM situations, also upon cold start situations. Then you have the owners that ignore oil changes that have to be protected against too, that run the filter until it can no longer pass oil through the media, or it is severely restricted.

The full flow filter is a cheap compromised design that was implemented when Detroit came out with the 5 year 50,000 mile warranty. They couldn't warranty their engines without some type of oil filter, and it had to be cheap. The optional by pass filter factory filter that had been an option up until then, was costly to add on and the parts were much more expensive than a full flow filter system was. There also was external plumbing that had to be added to the free standing by pass filter, a pressure line and a return line.

The solution was to make the oil filter attached to the engine itself, cutting down on the number of parts required, over the free standing by pass filters. Reducing cost, and every engine had a filter on it from the factory required by the warranty implementation.

As long as there was a priority valve to keep oil flowing to the critical engine parts, the restriction of the full flow filter wasn't a problem. It just had mediocre results as far as keeping the oil clean. You still had to drain the contaminated oil frequently as the fine contaminants became more concentrated, to the point of causing internal engine damage and wear.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

First of all you don't change it every 3-5,000 miles, it should be good for 50-60,000 miles.

Do the math. New 8 dollar filter every 5,000 miles is $48 in 6 oil changes, and 30,000 miles, plus no oil change at $30 bucks every 5,000 miles. $30 X 12 oil changes, in 60,000 miles is $360. That $45 dollar filter is looking pretty cheap now isn't it? Your $215 ahead at 60,000 miles.

You really don't need to inspect an oil filter, oil analysis gives you a much clearer picture of engine health than looking at particles on a ripped open oil filter.

If you buy a Frantz filter you can look at the end of the TP roll when you remove it from the canister, if you really feel the need to look at particulate. The thing is the really harmful particulate is invisible to the human eye anyway, that's the reason the oil is sent for analysis. They can see the fine particulate, identify it as to what is is, and tell you the condition of the oil, as well as the health of the engine.

It's a whole new set of rules maintaining an engine with a by pass oil filter system, you have to get used to not worrying about going past previous oil change intervals. Having made my living for 40 years as a mechanic, it was unnerving to run my oil for 30-40,000 miles, been doing it for 10 years now. I got no problems now with running the oil a ton of miles and just changing the TP every 5-8,000 miles.

BTW, you can run the full flow filter the same mileage as your oil, it doesn't get dirty, the by pass filter is doing the filtering. The full flow is just there as a backup, and to keep the flow of the oil system intact.

Question, I have 2 vehicles with canister type filters, Tundra and a Volvo. How would you install a by pass oil filter on the Tundra ?

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Question, I have 2 vehicles with canister type filters, Tundra and a Volvo. How would you install a by pass oil filter on the Tundra ?

Simplified schematic:



Tee into the oil pressure switch that is the pressure source. The return line is easiest returned to the oil fill cap with a swivel fitting:



You then select a site to mount the canister, either under the hood. If you want it hidden, it can be mounted behind the grille, under the cab, or in the bed of a truck, or in the trunk of a car. A by pass filter can be mounted upside down or sideways, makes no difference what position it is mounted in.

There is also a sandwich adapter that screws between the oil filter adapter and the oil filter that can be plumbed as a pressure source and a return source. I have one of these on my LS2 in my 05 GTO, this also works fine as a place to connect both the pressure line and return line to.

[F ROCK]

Mine mounts real nice in the fender behind the battery. 1971 GTO. The kit came with all of the fittings. I returned mine through the valve cover.

[F ROCK]

A few weeks back the garage was cold and my kerosene heater had a bit of water in it and wouldn't light. I Google searched how to remove water from kerosene. I saw a funnel with a filter that will separate the water out from the kerosene. It used cellulose paper.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Simplified schematic:



Tee into the oil pressure switch that is the pressure source. The return line is easiest returned to the oil fill cap with a swivel fitting:



You then select a site to mount the canister, either under the hood. If you want it hidden, it can be mounted behind the grille, under the cab, or in the bed of a truck, or in the trunk of a car. A by pass filter can be mounted upside down or sideways, makes no difference what position it is mounted in.

There is also a sandwich adapter that screws between the oil filter adapter and the oil filter that can be plumbed as a pressure source and a return source. I have one of these on my LS2 in my 05 GTO, this also works fine as a place to connect both the pressure line and return line to.

Plastic cap so would have to find another return. Oil filter is up in the engine on a Tundra so no sandwich adapter could work. I am sure I could find something for the oil pressure sensor, maybe ? But I would have to find a way to adapt standard to metric somewhere.
Its a fantastic engine and I don't want to mess anything up.